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Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10145&t=47794		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Thu May 19, 2016 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
I might as well get us started. As I said earlier, this will be a back burner project for me and I very well may not finish on time but I'll give it the old college try.

My plan so far (but it will likely change a lot) is to choose all three options. I work in cancer research and we have a fund that the staff raises money for. 100% of the money raised goes to help our patients who's cancer treatments have caused them to fall short financially. Sadly, some of our patients have to choose between continuing treatment or paying their other family bills or maybe they can't afford to drive the (sometimes several hours to get to our institution) or any number of other hardships related to their disease. last year I made an uke to be raffled off for this fund. A parlor is perfect for this as well because if the winner is a patient or family member they could comfortably play it even is mobility is limited or it could be passed on to a child to learn to play while serving as a memento of the pt's fight.

I'll be drawing up my own plan for the parlor and I am still kicking around dimensions. Currently I am thinking 18.25ish body length with a lower bout of either 12" or 12.25". The wood I use may end up determining that for me. I'm pretty sure I want to do martin short scale and I know it will be 12 frets to the body. The back and sides are currently planned to be locally grown cherry that I cut into sets a long time ago and one of the sets was really only suitable for a parlor. I THINK I can squeeze a cherry neck out of a board that was screwed to a tablesaw I bought on craigslist. The top will hopefully come form a pine 1x12 that was in the cull/scrap heap at Home Depot. Fretboard and bridge will be from some jatoba floorboards I was given a long time ago (the same stuff I used on my 2012 challenge mando).

It will be fun to see how much of this changes over the course of the project!
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Sun May 22, 2016 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
Not much to report but I did resaw the pine cull board and was able to get a clear section big enough for a 12 3/4" lower bout. I had planned on 12" (size 2ish) but I starting to dig the shape I drew with the extra 3/4" in the middle. That shape also nicely misses the knot on the back set I am using so that is probably where this will head. I have to make a mold before I can go any further so I'll make one that adjusts to give me both sizes.
Attachment:
image.jpeg


Sorry for the bad picture I'm having to take really wide shots and crop them down to get under the size limit with my phone. This has 't been a problem in the past.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Tue May 24, 2016 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
Opinion time so let's hear them.

I have never done peghead inlays. I kind of like the look of a naked peghead and I have never really come up with a good idea of what I would like to put on mine. I keep telling myself that someday I will design a "logo" that I like and start practicing inlay. Maybe I'm chicken or maybe have just not been properly inspired. Well, for this project I do have an idea for what to put on the peghead so it's time to go for it (part of the something new). It is certainly nothing difficult or involved (so Dennis don't bother watching) but it fits with the theme. The problem is it really only works on a solid peghead. I had hoped to do my first slot head since that seems more appropriate on a parlor. So what are your thoughts? Would a solid peghead look out of place on a small bodied guitar like this one?
Author:  truckjohn [ Tue May 24, 2016 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
I think a flat peg head looks wrong on one of these.. It hearkens to the dirt cheap Harmony small body guitars.

Thanks
Author:  PeterF [ Tue May 24, 2016 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
I think it depends on the style of the rest of the instrument. If you're doing a modern, contemporary look, a long, tapered (or other interesting shape) flat peghead would look good, but traditional style would need a slotted peghead. Definitely agree with John if you were to do a Martin/Gibson shape flat peghead.
Just my opinion though.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Tue May 24, 2016 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
Peter, I'm not sure I would call this contemporary. Here is a very quick and rough sketch of the idea. Since this is going to our cancer patient fund I thought an awareness ribbon was appropriate. The sketch doesn't really reflect that the top of the rippon follows the curve of the top of my pegheads. The ribbbon will probably be even more asymmetric than shown. I'd like one of the ends to extend to the corner and the other maybe run off the long edge. . . I'm thinking black overlay and wood ribbon (probably osage but maybe some aftican mahogany). I would find peices with grain variations that compliment the bends in the ribbon. An I may try my hand at sand shading the ends where the ribbon bends or goes under itself.


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image.jpeg
Author:  PeterF [ Tue May 24, 2016 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
Very cool! I think that would look great.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Thu May 26, 2016 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
I like the ribbon idea too.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Fri May 27, 2016 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
I had a few minutes last night before bed and sat down to draw out my plans. I think I am good with the shape and size now but I am still thinking about the bracing pattern. The body is 18.25" long with a 12 fret 24.8" scale so that leaves the bridge back a bit farther than I'm used to. This squeezes the X brace a bit and also leaves more room between the X intersection and the bridge plate. The tone bar position and angle will probably be tweaked once I have the top thicknessed and can feel what the cross grain stiffness really is. Braces will be tapered not scalloped and as low as I feel like I can get by with.

The soundhole is fairly large for such a small body (50mm radius [3.94" Diameter]) and it is shifted forward just a bit. Both are attempts to get a tad more bass. I may move the soundhole up a little bit farther. I'm going to leave this drawing out on the dining room table for the weekend so I can glance at it several times a day. Hopefully one of these later looks will help me notice some changes that need to be made or how to set it up better.

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Author:  J De Rocher [ Fri May 27, 2016 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
Bryan Bear wrote:
The soundhole is fairly large for such a small body (50mm radius [3.94" Diameter]) and it is shifted forward just a bit. Both are attempts to get a tad more bass.
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IMG_0521.JPG


I may be mis-remembering, but I'm pretty sure I've read that bass response is increased by reducing the soundhole size which reduces the resonance frequency associated with the soundhole diameter.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Fri May 27, 2016 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
You could be right, I was going from memory last night. I might have it backwards.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri May 27, 2016 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
As I recall having heard, smaller = more bass. How much smaller, I don't know. I've done one experiment by changing the sound hole diameter about 1/16" and it did make one guitar less boomy so not exactly a great sample size.
Author:  DennisK [ Fri May 27, 2016 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
Yep, Jay has it right. Choice of soundhole size is one of those black magic aspects of instrument design. Picture it as your mouth, and the effect it has on the tone of your voice as you open and close it.

50mm radius sounds a little big to me.
Author:  J De Rocher [ Fri May 27, 2016 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
If it's any help, the diameter of the soundhole on my old Stromberg-Voisinet parlor guitar is 3 1/2".
Author:  gregorio [ Sat May 28, 2016 6:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
Alternatively you could do a much smaller ribbon and proceed with the slot head. Maybe incorporate a encouraging phrase/word/saying in cursive.
Or, do the slot head with no inlay and use a pink ribbon as the 12th fret marker.
...just some thoughts
Author:  truckjohn [ Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
You may want to think about the scale length. The old old Martin Size 1 and many similar "parlor" guitars had a 24.5" scale. That would move your bridge up a little. That little lakeside I posted has a 24.5" scale.... And it seems like the old guitars this size seem to hover around 24" scale lengths probably to keep the proportions right and put the bridge in the middle of the lower bout... That or consider shifting up to a 14 fret neck.

When they went to size 2 down to size 5 - the scales went progressively shorter from 24" to 21" or so.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
I have gone back and forth on scale length and neck length. Originally, I was going to go with 24.5" but was feeling lazy (I'm getting ready to make a 24.8" template for another guitar and didn't want to make two) and realized that I was only going to be getting a 0.15" shift in body position. I had also considered 14 fret and even 13 fret but the compact size, for me, is part of the charm. If I were keeping it, I would have gone to 13 frets as a compromise. Since I am donating it and have no idea who will end up with it, I don't want it to be too oddball. It already will have a nontraditional peghead and be made from alternative materials. I don't really know why I feel this way. Perhaps I will change my mind, I have a lot of work to do before I commit to bracing.

I'm going to draw up a new bracing plan that will bring the upper legs of the X down a bit further into the waist curve, this will allow me to open up the X by several degrees. We'll see how I like that look.
Author:  truckjohn [ Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
On the sound hole - small hole = lower main air. Bigger hole = faster attack. But... Like everything else on a guitar, everything interacts with everything else so the changes aren't as straight forward as on a stiff, heavy speaker enclosure.

I do think it's worthwhile to make the soundhole big enough to get your hand into... Everything inside the box is harder if you can't.

On the fretboard.. LMI will cut any fret pattern you want for $9.00 or something like that. It may be worth it for a one off.

Thanks
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
Until now, I have been cutting fret slots by hand. The last several times I have done it, I have promised myself I would set up for doing them on the table saw. Then fretboard time would come around again and I hadn't done it yet. I would say, 'okay I'll just do one more by hand and THE NEXT TIME I'll set up to do it on the tably won't be making a le saw. So I could do it without making a template (not that making one is all that big of a deal) but I'll probably just do them both at 24.8" since I probably won't be making a whole lot of size 1s in the future and it will only move the bridge up 0.15".

For the soundhole, my new plan has it smaller but big enough to fit my hand inside. I mmay be doing a soundport too which will further confound my soundhole speculation. I guess at some point you just have to make the darned thing and see what it sounds like. But, it is good to throw ideas around while getting all the prepwork taken care of.
Author:  truckjohn [ Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
If you are going to do that.... Set up for 24.875" (almost everything Gibson) or 24.9 (Martin 12 fret scale). Those are both pretty common for all sorts of builds and all sort of guitar sizes.

Then.. Just elongate the body of your parlor about 1/2".

Thanks
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
Yeah I guess I have been typing 24.8 when really I mean Martin short scale. I guess people usually say 24.9 for that even though it is slightly less than that. . .
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
Nothing really to update here. I have not been in the shop. I still need to resaw my sides and make a mold before I can do to much.

My salvaged pine top may not pass muster. When I got the board, It was 3/4" thick but had pulled itself apart while drying. The section I plan to use was straight and flat thoug. I did 't know if it was done moving so I cut that section out and resawed it roughly in half to see what the two thick halves would do. They cupped. It is not terrible but I am letting it set for a while to see what it will do. If it stops moving I will have plenty of thickness to get it flat but I want to see what it will do before I put any more work into it. I am conifers get baking the top. This will add another element to the something new for me. If I ruin it. I'm out $1.80.
Author:  truckjohn [ Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
It's not that uncommon for wood stored outside to move a lot when it comes in and dries out.

I would be careful to look for signs that it's moving a lot more than normal. That may be a sign of reaction or branch wood that has a huge amount of built in stress.

That said - I have jointed edges on many pieces of wood that checked perfect and then had moved while sitting on the bench for a few days or moving it from one place to another... And that didn't seem to cause any issues on the final instrument after I rejointed and glued it up.

Thanks
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
First post using tapatalk, let's see how it goes. . .

I went ahead and tossed my top wood in the oven. Was splitting up the other parts of the board and it split remarkably straight in both directions. Especially so for a garbage board. I split out a set of brace wood for this guitar and tossed it I. The oven too just to see how it went.

I sticks red and clamped the halves flat and popped it I. A cool oven. I turned it on to the "warm" setting for 30 min. The. I bumped it up to about 175 f. I'll leave it there for about 15 min. The. Bump the temp up around 200 for an hour. I'll let it cool I. The oven the. See what I have.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bryan Bear's 2016 Challenge entry
I am still trying to figure out how to post pics from tapatalk. Let's try this.
Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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